Another mass shooting

[saltydog]

Okay... what's the bait?

I honestly don't know. Trying to figure out gun laws is not my thing and I don't know a heck of a lot about gun laws. But I know that every negotiation is possible. Everyone has something they will bargain. Even the people that have something that isn't for sale can be bought out. That's just a fact.

So, if people really wanted to solve this or at least start making progress, they would figure out some of those things. Instead of asking for the whole thing or starting at a point that everyone knows no one will agree to.

If you have ever been in mediation, they first get the two sides to lay out there best and worst offers and then they start working toward the middle ground. I always hear people bitching but I never see much being done.

So, since you're claiming ignorance, you keep chiming in because you can't help but be a shitbag about the topic?

Sounds about right.

[Reservoir Dog]

If you have ever been in mediation, they first get the two sides to lay out there best and worst offers and then they start working toward the middle ground. I always hear people bitching but I never see much being done.

Apparently, you've never heard of the "Safer Communities Act".

[dot]

I honestly don't know.

You could’ve just stopped there and you’d have been more right in silence than you would’ve been continuing to speak. The majority of the country wants what Democrats, both voters and reps, advocate for, which is common sense gun control. That includes even Republicans amongst the voter base. Shockingly, guess who’s not on board with what the rest of the country wants. You guessed it, your reps. Your ignorance on this is astounding, especially when coupled with the fact that you choose to be this way.

[Animal]

I honestly don't know.

You could’ve just stopped there and you’d have been more right in silence than you would’ve been continuing to speak. The majority of the country wants what Democrats, both voters and reps, advocate for, which is common sense gun control. That includes even Republicans amongst the voter base. Shockingly, guess who’s not on board with what the rest of the country wants. You guessed it, your reps. Your ignorance on this is astounding, especially when coupled with the fact that you choose to be this way.

that was a much longer way to say that you don't know either. Congrats.

[dot]

that was a much longer way to say that you don't know either. Congrats.

If I believed that saying anything would change your mind, I’d have done so the first time. It still won’t, but here you go. Universal background checks, red flag laws, assault weapon and high capacity magazine ban. What’s your objection to common sense gun control laws?

[saltydog]

that was a much longer way to say that you don't know either. Congrats.

If I believed that saying anything would change your mind, I’d have done so the first time. It still won’t, but here you go. Universal background checks, red flag laws, assault weapon and high capacity magazine ban. What’s your objection to common sense gun control laws?

He likes to shoot "feral hogs".

[Animal]

that was a much longer way to say that you don't know either. Congrats.

If I believed that saying anything would change your mind, I’d have done so the first time. It still won’t, but here you go. Universal background checks, red flag laws, assault weapon and high capacity magazine ban. What’s your objection to common sense gun control laws?

i have posted many of my personal ideas on gun control laws. i have no problem with putting limits on assault weapons. ban high capacity magazines. put a 2 year cooling off period of trying to buy an assault weapon. i think we already have background checks, and they seem pretty worthless. i mean asking me if i am a legal citizen or if i have a mental illness? Yes or No? That's not going to solve anything. I'd have to read up on red flag laws, i don't know exactly what that involves. you'd probably have to agree to grandfather the guns that are already out there. i'm not turning anything in.

[Antknot]

Re: Red Flag Laws, I don’t think that the red flag gun laws as implemented are valid or fair. How would you like to be going through a divorce and have your spouse claimed that you were crazy or had threatened to shoot them when you hadn’t.? How would you like a neighbor that’s pissed off at you because your dog crapped in your lawn reporting you for a red flag law? There’s too much chance for abuse

[saltydog]

that was a much longer way to say that you don't know either. Congrats.

If I believed that saying anything would change your mind, I’d have done so the first time. It still won’t, but here you go. Universal background checks, red flag laws, assault weapon and high capacity magazine ban. What’s your objection to common sense gun control laws?

i have posted many of my personal ideas on gun control laws. i have no problem with putting limits on assault weapons. ban high capacity magazines. put a 2 year cooling off period of trying to buy an assault weapon. i think we already have background checks, and they seem pretty worthless. i mean asking me if i am a legal citizen or if i have a mental illness? Yes or No? That's not going to solve anything. I'd have to read up on red flag laws, i don't know exactly what that involves. you'd probably have to agree to grandfather the guns that are already out there. i'm not turning anything in.

When has anyone been told they would have to turn in their weapons?

The only time I have heard of such behavior is "buy back" or "turn-in" events with authorities which people turn in guns with no questions asked. The "coming for your guns" myth is exactly that.

[dot]

i have posted many of my personal ideas on gun control laws. i have no problem with putting limits on assault weapons. ban high capacity magazines. put a 2 year cooling off period of trying to buy an assault weapon. i think we already have background checks, and they seem pretty worthless.

Universal. There's a difference. A patchwork of varying degrees of control across the country is just one facet of the problem.

i mean asking me if i am a legal citizen or if i have a mental illness? Yes or No? That's not going to solve anything.

And no one's suggesting anything that weak. Zero substance, moving on.

I'd have to read up on red flag laws, i don't know exactly what that involves. you'd probably have to agree to grandfather the guns that are already out there. i'm not turning anything in.

I'm less stalwart on turning nothing in especially outside of a buy back sort of event, my family owns guns, and while I wouldn't say I myself own one, I do have one or two that are considered mine from childhood. But I've also been taught safety, respected the risk and responsibility that comes with such a possession. A lot of the posers out there posturing "take my guns from my cold dead hands" are not responsible safe users, and then you have those like last night who arguably are well trained and would otherwise be responsible and safe if not for the break in mental faculties. Either way, you clearly see there's a lot more common ground between even you and me and we couldn't be further apart on the rest of our politics. Now expand that across the country among the voter base on your side and mine, and then realize how many of your reps are bought and paid for by the gun lobby and that is why nothing ever gets done.

Re: Red Flag Laws, I don’t think that the red flag gun laws as implemented are valid or fair. How would you like to be going through a divorce and have your spouse claimed that you were crazy or had threatened to shoot them when you hadn’t.? How would you like a neighbor that’s pissed off at you because your dog crapped in your lawn reporting you for a red flag law? There’s too much chance for abuse

If you think that's all it takes for such a thing, please log out and go learn before chiming in again.

[saltydog]

Re: Red Flag Laws, I don’t think that the red flag gun laws as implemented are valid or fair. How would you like to be going through a divorce and have your spouse claimed that you were crazy or had threatened to shoot them when you hadn’t.? How would you like a neighbor that’s pissed off at you because your dog crapped in your lawn reporting you for a red flag law? There’s too much chance for abuse

I bet you think seatbelts and fire alarms are unnecessary too.

Fuck discomfort when people are getting executed on a weekly basis.

[Antknot]

Re: Red Flag Laws, I don’t think that the red flag gun laws as implemented are valid or fair. How would you like to be going through a divorce and have your spouse claimed that you were crazy or had threatened to shoot them when you hadn’t.? How would you like a neighbor that’s pissed off at you because your dog crapped in your lawn reporting you for a red flag law? There’s too much chance for abuse

I bet you think seatbelts and fire alarms are unnecessary too.

Fuck discomfort when people are getting executed on a weekly basis.

Seatbelts and fire extinguishers are good things. Especially when are used properly.

Does anyone know if the shooting locations in Maine were gun free zones or not?

[saltydog]

Re: Red Flag Laws, I don’t think that the red flag gun laws as implemented are valid or fair. How would you like to be going through a divorce and have your spouse claimed that you were crazy or had threatened to shoot them when you hadn’t.? How would you like a neighbor that’s pissed off at you because your dog crapped in your lawn reporting you for a red flag law? There’s too much chance for abuse

I bet you think seatbelts and fire alarms are unnecessary too.

Fuck discomfort when people are getting executed on a weekly basis.

Seatbelts and fire extinguishers are good things. Especially when are used properly.

Does anyone know if the shooting locations in Maine were gun free zones or not?

It was at a bar. What difference does that make?

[Animal]

Re: Red Flag Laws, I don’t think that the red flag gun laws as implemented are valid or fair. How would you like to be going through a divorce and have your spouse claimed that you were crazy or had threatened to shoot them when you hadn’t.? How would you like a neighbor that’s pissed off at you because your dog crapped in your lawn reporting you for a red flag law? There’s too much chance for abuse

I bet you think seatbelts and fire alarms are unnecessary too.

Fuck discomfort when people are getting executed on a weekly basis.

Seatbelts and fire extinguishers are good things. Especially when are used properly.

Does anyone know if the shooting locations in Maine were gun free zones or not?

It was at a bar. What difference does that make?

i am totally guessing, but it probably means that if you are going to make serious laws to try to affect this problem, then you can't slap a "gun free zone" sticker up in a place and think that is going to accomplish anything. people have to remember that laws are not going to solve this problem just because they are laws. its illegal already to shoot someone or kill someone. we already have those laws. so a person like the guy in Maine aren't worried about what the laws are.

now, that doesn't mean that some laws won't solve the problem. but they have to make sense.

[saltydog]

Re: Red Flag Laws, I don’t think that the red flag gun laws as implemented are valid or fair. How would you like to be going through a divorce and have your spouse claimed that you were crazy or had threatened to shoot them when you hadn’t.? How would you like a neighbor that’s pissed off at you because your dog crapped in your lawn reporting you for a red flag law? There’s too much chance for abuse

I bet you think seatbelts and fire alarms are unnecessary too.

Fuck discomfort when people are getting executed on a weekly basis.

Seatbelts and fire extinguishers are good things. Especially when are used properly.

Does anyone know if the shooting locations in Maine were gun free zones or not?

It was at a bar. What difference does that make?

i am totally guessing, but it probably means that if you are going to make serious laws to try to affect this problem, then you can't slap a "gun free zone" sticker up in a place and think that is going to accomplish anything. people have to remember that laws are not going to solve this problem just because they are laws. its illegal already to shoot someone or kill someone. we already have those laws. so a person like the guy in Maine aren't worried about what the laws are.

now, that doesn't mean that some laws won't solve the problem. but they have to make sense.

How about background checks for ex-military "veterans" who are sent back to civilian life after being questionable at best with their mental capacity while "serving our country"?

[dot]

i am totally guessing, but it probably means that if you are going to make serious laws to try to affect this problem, then you can't slap a "gun free zone" sticker up in a place and think that is going to accomplish anything. people have to remember that laws are not going to solve this problem just because they are laws. its illegal already to shoot someone or kill someone. we already have those laws. so a person like the guy in Maine aren't worried about what the laws are.

now, that doesn't mean that some laws won't solve the problem. but they have to make sense.

And so it begins. Because one thing doesn't make sense to one individual, everything must stop being considered. Nevermind that we literally just found common ground on some measures, your people in charge won't let it happen. It's a never ending loop without fail. Don't believe me? Just wait for the inevitable, "now is not the time to politicize this tragedy, now is the time to mourn." "Then when do we make real change to keep this from happening again?" "Thoughts and prayers.™"

[Animal]

the guy was a known fruit loop. they knew full well that he was seeing things and hearing voices and he was unhinged.

but, that is a whole different topic in this country. you can't declare someone crazy and you can't isolate someone for being crazy. and you certainly can't limit their rights because they are crazy. mostly because it takes a doctor to determine if a person is crazy and its illegal for a doctor to share that information with anyone.

its a fucked up system. but it might warrant work more than the gun issue.

[Animal]

i am totally guessing, but it probably means that if you are going to make serious laws to try to affect this problem, then you can't slap a "gun free zone" sticker up in a place and think that is going to accomplish anything. people have to remember that laws are not going to solve this problem just because they are laws. its illegal already to shoot someone or kill someone. we already have those laws. so a person like the guy in Maine aren't worried about what the laws are.

now, that doesn't mean that some laws won't solve the problem. but they have to make sense.

And so it begins. Because one thing doesn't make sense to one individual, everything must stop being considered. Nevermind that we literally just found common ground on some measures, your people in charge won't let it happen. It's a never ending loop without fail. Don't believe me? Just wait for the inevitable, "now is not the time to politicize this tragedy, now is the time to mourn." "Then when do we make real change to keep this from happening again?" "Thoughts and prayers.™"

fine by me then. declare certain places gun free zones. i really couldn't care less about that. just don't expect it to accomplish anything.

[saltydog]

the guy was a known fruit loop. they knew full well that he was seeing things and hearing voices and he was unhinged.

but, that is a whole different topic in this country. you can't declare someone crazy and you can't isolate someone for being crazy. and you certainly can't limit their rights because they are crazy. mostly because it takes a doctor to determine if a person is crazy and its illegal for a doctor to share that information with anyone.

its a fucked up system. but it might warrant work more than the gun issue.

He was kicked out of the military for being a bit looney tunes.

I had a childhood friend who had PTSD issues after an incident in Afghanistan. The military didn't know how to treat him as he was fully functioning physically but mentally fucked up. Two years after the incident he's discharged and sent "home".

He woke up one morning and chugged a fifth of vodka and decided to jump off a bridge into a river about 10 miles from Lewiston, Maine.

That was 8 years ago.

He was anti-gun because "cowards use guns".

He was right.

[saltydog]

i am totally guessing, but it probably means that if you are going to make serious laws to try to affect this problem, then you can't slap a "gun free zone" sticker up in a place and think that is going to accomplish anything. people have to remember that laws are not going to solve this problem just because they are laws. its illegal already to shoot someone or kill someone. we already have those laws. so a person like the guy in Maine aren't worried about what the laws are.

now, that doesn't mean that some laws won't solve the problem. but they have to make sense.

And so it begins. Because one thing doesn't make sense to one individual, everything must stop being considered. Nevermind that we literally just found common ground on some measures, your people in charge won't let it happen. It's a never ending loop without fail. Don't believe me? Just wait for the inevitable, "now is not the time to politicize this tragedy, now is the time to mourn." "Then when do we make real change to keep this from happening again?" "Thoughts and prayers.™"

fine by me then. declare certain places gun free zones. i really couldn't care less about that. just don't expect it to accomplish anything.

Most people don't pay attention to signs anyways.

[Animal]

He was kicked out of the military for being a bit looney tunes.

I had a childhood friend who had PTSD issues after an incident in Afghanistan. The military didn't know how to treat him as he was fully functioning physically but mentally fucked up. Two years after the incident he's discharged and sent "home".

He woke up one morning and chugged a fifth of vodka and decided to jump off a bridge into a river about 10 miles from Lewiston, Maine.

That was 8 years ago.

He was anti-gun because "cowards use guns".

He was right.

the shooter in Maine had no military active duty experience, right? wasn't he just a reserve? from what i have read, he's a perfect example of the mental health nuts slipping thru the cracks. he would have rang every bell for someone that was going to shoot up a bowling alley.

[dot]

fine by me then. declare certain places gun free zones. i really couldn't care less about that. just don't expect it to accomplish anything.

Very much not the point because you are not the arbiter of these things. The people you elect who are then bought and paid for by the gun lobby are who put a stop to the things that even we agree on. In case you forgot, this is regarding:

I honestly don't know. Trying to figure out gun laws is not my thing and I don't know a heck of a lot about gun laws. But I know that every negotiation is possible. Everyone has something they will bargain. Even the people that have something that isn't for sale can be bought out. That's just a fact.

So, if people really wanted to solve this or at least start making progress, they would figure out some of those things. Instead of asking for the whole thing or starting at a point that everyone knows no one will agree to.

If you have ever been in mediation, they first get the two sides to lay out there best and worst offers and then they start working toward the middle ground. I always hear people bitching but I never see much being done.

The people who keep blocking the things even we agree need to be done do not budge. They're given their orders along with check after check. Their starting point is the same as their ending point. Status quo.

[saltydog]

He was kicked out of the military for being a bit looney tunes.

I had a childhood friend who had PTSD issues after an incident in Afghanistan. The military didn't know how to treat him as he was fully functioning physically but mentally fucked up. Two years after the incident he's discharged and sent "home".

He woke up one morning and chugged a fifth of vodka and decided to jump off a bridge into a river about 10 miles from Lewiston, Maine.

That was 8 years ago.

He was anti-gun because "cowards use guns".

He was right.

the shooter in Maine had no military active duty experience, right? wasn't he just a reserve? from what i have read, he's a perfect example of the mental health nuts slipping thru the cracks. he would have rang every bell for someone that was going to shoot up a bowling alley.

I've heard that he was discharged dishonorably by one source and declared unfit to serve by another source for what it's worth.

His family was known in the area as "people to avoid".

Gun laws in Maine are less challenging than buying Sudafed.

[Animal]

fine by me then. declare certain places gun free zones. i really couldn't care less about that. just don't expect it to accomplish anything.

Very much not the point because you are not the arbiter of these things. The people you elect who are then bought and paid for by the gun lobby are who put a stop to the things that even we agree on. In case you forgot, this is regarding:

I honestly don't know. Trying to figure out gun laws is not my thing and I don't know a heck of a lot about gun laws. But I know that every negotiation is possible. Everyone has something they will bargain. Even the people that have something that isn't for sale can be bought out. That's just a fact.

So, if people really wanted to solve this or at least start making progress, they would figure out some of those things. Instead of asking for the whole thing or starting at a point that everyone knows no one will agree to.

If you have ever been in mediation, they first get the two sides to lay out there best and worst offers and then they start working toward the middle ground. I always hear people bitching but I never see much being done.

The people who keep blocking the things even we agree need to be done do not budge. They're given their orders along with check after check. Their starting point is the same as their ending point. Status quo.

then work on campaign finance laws. the object here isn't to find out why you can't get anything done, the object is to find a place to start that works. lots of jobs we build, we have to start by building detours and bridges that have nothing to do with the finished product, we just have to build them to move the traffic out of the way so the real road can be built. you have to do what you have to do.

[saltydog]

fine by me then. declare certain places gun free zones. i really couldn't care less about that. just don't expect it to accomplish anything.

Very much not the point because you are not the arbiter of these things. The people you elect who are then bought and paid for by the gun lobby are who put a stop to the things that even we agree on. In case you forgot, this is regarding:

I honestly don't know. Trying to figure out gun laws is not my thing and I don't know a heck of a lot about gun laws. But I know that every negotiation is possible. Everyone has something they will bargain. Even the people that have something that isn't for sale can be bought out. That's just a fact.

So, if people really wanted to solve this or at least start making progress, they would figure out some of those things. Instead of asking for the whole thing or starting at a point that everyone knows no one will agree to.

If you have ever been in mediation, they first get the two sides to lay out there best and worst offers and then they start working toward the middle ground. I always hear people bitching but I never see much being done.

The people who keep blocking the things even we agree need to be done do not budge. They're given their orders along with check after check. Their starting point is the same as their ending point. Status quo.

then work on campaign finance laws. the object here isn't to find out why you can't get anything done, the object is to find a place to start that works. lots of jobs we build, we have to start by building detours and bridges that have nothing to do with the finished product, we just have to build them to move the traffic out of the way so the real road can be built. you have to do what you have to do.

We'll start in your state, is that ok with you?