Animal wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:11 am
It got 1/2 way to its final orbit in 7 days. but it looks like it will be around day 30 when it reaches the target location. I guess that means it is gradually slowing down as it goes?
Right now its speed is 0.3961 mi/sec. I'll check that in a day or two and see how it compares.
Speed update. Okay, its been around 24 hours and the speed has reduced to 0.3740 mi/second. It is showing to be 22 days away from its final position.
If it loses .02 mi/sec each day, that would mean it would lose .44 mi/sec in speed over the next 22 days, which would bring it to a stop. So, maybe that is what it is doing. Maybe its speed is set to gradually be decelerating until it stops at exactly the right location.
Yes, that beats flying past and waist img fuel to get back
it makes perfect sense. its just something i wouldn't have thought of. this is one of the things i like about missions like this. its adjusts your common sense about things.\
which also makes me wonder how exactly something "de"-celerates in space? How do you slow down in space without applying a force in the opposite direction? Or is the amount of friction in space only minimal and not non-existent, meaning that you do have a tiny amount, which is what we are seeing in this satellite as it travels?
Re: Finally- Next Gen James Webb Telescope set for launch
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:52 pm
by rule34
Is it friction or gravity?
Re: Finally- Next Gen James Webb Telescope set for launch
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:58 pm
by Animal
rule34 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:52 pm
Is it friction or gravity?
hmm. well there would be some gravity from every planet. I can't remember the formula for gravity, but I don't think that it has any kind of a limit based on distance. Although it would get incredibly small at super large distances such as what it is at right now. But that could be. Maybe that L2 point is the point at which the gravity of the earth becomes negligible.
yep, just looked it up. L2 is where gravitational forces balance themselves. It doesn't say which two bodies the L2 point balances between.
Re: Finally- Next Gen James Webb Telescope set for launch
Animal wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:11 am
It got 1/2 way to its final orbit in 7 days. but it looks like it will be around day 30 when it reaches the target location. I guess that means it is gradually slowing down as it goes?
Right now its speed is 0.3961 mi/sec. I'll check that in a day or two and see how it compares.
Speed update. Okay, its been around 24 hours and the speed has reduced to 0.3740 mi/second. It is showing to be 22 days away from its final position.
If it loses .02 mi/sec each day, that would mean it would lose .44 mi/sec in speed over the next 22 days, which would bring it to a stop. So, maybe that is what it is doing. Maybe its speed is set to gradually be decelerating until it stops at exactly the right location.
Yes, that beats flying past and waist img fuel to get back
it makes perfect sense. its just something i wouldn't have thought of. this is one of the things i like about missions like this. its adjusts your common sense about things.\
which also makes me wonder how exactly something "de"-celerates in space? How do you slow down in space without applying a force in the opposite direction? Or is the amount of friction in space only minimal and not non-existent, meaning that you do have a tiny amount, which is what we are seeing in this satellite as it travels?
Space is not 100% empty there is hydrogen gas in a very diffuse amount. I don’t know if that is what’s slowing it. I’d bet on a combo of that plus gravity from the earth, moon and sun. Or they could be using the solar “wind” in some fashion. Not to mention plane old rockets. There was at least one spacecraft whose thrust was from an ion rocket. It had/had plasma for thrust.
Re: Finally- Next Gen James Webb Telescope set for launch
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:21 pm
by CentralTexasCrude
I'm presuming it's a combination forward momentum slowed slowly by gravity all figured out well in advance. Probably have one huge thing going for them on this mission. Unlike others where the margin of errors (entering Mars orbit say) are tiny, they probably don't have to park it at an exact spot. Too far to send repair missions. Doubt anything like communications and things will be affected if it's a few hundred miles close or far from where they wanted it.
Re: Finally- Next Gen James Webb Telescope set for launch
Animal wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:11 am
It got 1/2 way to its final orbit in 7 days. but it looks like it will be around day 30 when it reaches the target location. I guess that means it is gradually slowing down as it goes?
Right now its speed is 0.3961 mi/sec. I'll check that in a day or two and see how it compares.
Speed update. Okay, its been around 24 hours and the speed has reduced to 0.3740 mi/second. It is showing to be 22 days away from its final position.
If it loses .02 mi/sec each day, that would mean it would lose .44 mi/sec in speed over the next 22 days, which would bring it to a stop. So, maybe that is what it is doing. Maybe its speed is set to gradually be decelerating until it stops at exactly the right location.
Yes, that beats flying past and waist img fuel to get back
it makes perfect sense. its just something i wouldn't have thought of. this is one of the things i like about missions like this. its adjusts your common sense about things.\
which also makes me wonder how exactly something "de"-celerates in space? How do you slow down in space without applying a force in the opposite direction? Or is the amount of friction in space only minimal and not non-existent, meaning that you do have a tiny amount, which is what we are seeing in this satellite as it travels?
When it was launched it would have been on a spiral trajectory to slowly bring it to it's intended orbit.
If it was launched in a straight line at the Sun, it would take too much fuel to de-accelarate and if it worked then more fuel would have to be used to get the orbit going.
Re: Finally- Next Gen James Webb Telescope set for launch
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:34 pm
by Animal
stonedmegman wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:26 pm
When it was launched it would have been on a spiral trajectory to slowly bring it to it's intended orbit.
If it was launched in a straight line at the Sun, it would take too much fuel to de-accelarate and if it worked then more fuel would have to be used to get the orbit going.
its heading away from the sun.
Re: Finally- Next Gen James Webb Telescope set for launch
stonedmegman wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:26 pm
When it was launched it would have been on a spiral trajectory to slowly bring it to it's intended orbit.
If it was launched in a straight line at the Sun, it would take too much fuel to de-accelarate and if it worked then more fuel would have to be used to get the orbit going.
its heading away from the sun.
Towards the Sun, away from the Sun, it doesn't matter. You just can't run it out and put on the brakes effectively. You haven't got a planet or moon to slingshot around to create drag and slow it down. You have to kind of slide it into the slot gently.
Re: Finally- Next Gen James Webb Telescope set for launch
stonedmegman wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:26 pm
When it was launched it would have been on a spiral trajectory to slowly bring it to it's intended orbit.
If it was launched in a straight line at the Sun, it would take too much fuel to de-accelarate and if it worked then more fuel would have to be used to get the orbit going.
its heading away from the sun.
Towards the Sun, away from the Sun, it doesn't matter. You just can't run it out and put on the brakes effectively. You haven't got a planet or moon to slingshot around to create drag and slow it down. You have to kind of slide it into the slot gently.
Uh, no. There is no slot. There is no orbit to worry about. See my post above
Re: Finally- Next Gen James Webb Telescope set for launch
stonedmegman wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:26 pm
When it was launched it would have been on a spiral trajectory to slowly bring it to it's intended orbit.
If it was launched in a straight line at the Sun, it would take too much fuel to de-accelarate and if it worked then more fuel would have to be used to get the orbit going.
its heading away from the sun.
Towards the Sun, away from the Sun, it doesn't matter. You just can't run it out and put on the brakes effectively. You haven't got a planet or moon to slingshot around to create drag and slow it down. You have to kind of slide it into the slot gently.
Slingshotting increases speed, dude.
Re: Finally- Next Gen James Webb Telescope set for launch
stonedmegman wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:26 pm
When it was launched it would have been on a spiral trajectory to slowly bring it to it's intended orbit.
If it was launched in a straight line at the Sun, it would take too much fuel to de-accelarate and if it worked then more fuel would have to be used to get the orbit going.
its heading away from the sun.
Towards the Sun, away from the Sun, it doesn't matter. You just can't run it out and put on the brakes effectively. You haven't got a planet or moon to slingshot around to create drag and slow it down. You have to kind of slide it into the slot gently.
Slingshoting increases speed, dude.
Not if you get close enough.
Re: Finally- Next Gen James Webb Telescope set for launch
stonedmegman wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:26 pm
When it was launched it would have been on a spiral trajectory to slowly bring it to it's intended orbit.
If it was launched in a straight line at the Sun, it would take too much fuel to de-accelarate and if it worked then more fuel would have to be used to get the orbit going.
its heading away from the sun.
Towards the Sun, away from the Sun, it doesn't matter. You just can't run it out and put on the brakes effectively. You haven't got a planet or moon to slingshot around to create drag and slow it down. You have to kind of slide it into the slot gently.
Uh, no. There is no slot. There is no orbit to worry about. See my post above
The Earth orbits the Sun. This thing is going to be ORBITING the Sun at a rate slightly faster than Earth to keep it there.
What will happen to that orbit if you just run it out and park it? You have to establish an orbit or otherwise it won't be sitting where it's suppose to for very long because the Earth will orbit without it.
It's not rocket science....
Re: Finally- Next Gen James Webb Telescope set for launch
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:08 pm
by Animal
ah. yeah, i just never really thought much about how you stop in space. there's a lot about something like this that is out of my wheelhouse.
Re: Finally- Next Gen James Webb Telescope set for launch
stonedmegman wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:26 pm
When it was launched it would have been on a spiral trajectory to slowly bring it to it's intended orbit.
If it was launched in a straight line at the Sun, it would take too much fuel to de-accelarate and if it worked then more fuel would have to be used to get the orbit going.
its heading away from the sun.
Towards the Sun, away from the Sun, it doesn't matter. You just can't run it out and put on the brakes effectively. You haven't got a planet or moon to slingshot around to create drag and slow it down. You have to kind of slide it into the slot gently.
Uh, no. There is no slot. There is no orbit to worry about. See my post above
That is completely 100% wrong.
Re: Finally- Next Gen James Webb Telescope set for launch
stonedmegman wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:26 pm
When it was launched it would have been on a spiral trajectory to slowly bring it to it's intended orbit.
If it was launched in a straight line at the Sun, it would take too much fuel to de-accelarate and if it worked then more fuel would have to be used to get the orbit going.
its heading away from the sun.
Towards the Sun, away from the Sun, it doesn't matter. You just can't run it out and put on the brakes effectively. You haven't got a planet or moon to slingshot around to create drag and slow it down. You have to kind of slide it into the slot gently.
Uh, no. There is no slot. There is no orbit to worry about. See my post above
The Earth orbits the Sun. This thing is going to be ORBITING the Sun at a rate slightly faster than Earth to keep it there.
What will happen to that orbit if you just run it out and park it? You have to establish an orbit or otherwise it won't be sitting where it's suppose to for very long because the Earth will orbit without it.
It's not rocket science....
Not higher rate. same rate at a location the Earth hasn’t reached yet. Research LaGrangevpoints. L2 specifically.
Re: Finally- Next Gen James Webb Telescope set for launch
stonedmegman wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:26 pm
When it was launched it would have been on a spiral trajectory to slowly bring it to it's intended orbit.
If it was launched in a straight line at the Sun, it would take too much fuel to de-accelarate and if it worked then more fuel would have to be used to get the orbit going.
its heading away from the sun.
Towards the Sun, away from the Sun, it doesn't matter. You just can't run it out and put on the brakes effectively. You haven't got a planet or moon to slingshot around to create drag and slow it down. You have to kind of slide it into the slot gently.
Uh, no. There is no slot. There is no orbit to worry about. See my post above
The Earth orbits the Sun. This thing is going to be ORBITING the Sun at a rate slightly faster than Earth to keep it there.
What will happen to that orbit if you just run it out and park it? You have to establish an orbit or otherwise it won't be sitting where it's suppose to for very long because the Earth will orbit without it.
It's not rocket science....
Not higher rate. same rate at a location the Earth hasn’t reached yet. Research LaGrangevpoints. L2 specifically.
The further out you go the longer the orbit. It would fall behind the Earth if it wasn't slightly faster.
Re: Finally- Next Gen James Webb Telescope set for launch
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:24 pm
by stonedmegman
ON UJR NO ONE CAN HEAR YOU SCREAM!!!
Re: Finally- Next Gen James Webb Telescope set for launch
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:25 pm
by Animal
what am i missing here. the orbit path of James Webb will be a larger orbit than earth. so if the James Webb is going to stay in the same relation to earth, it will have to be orbiting faster than earth. its like a two cars on a race track. the one in the outside lane has to drive faster to stay beside the one on the inside lane.
Re: Finally- Next Gen James Webb Telescope set for launch
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:30 pm
by stonedmegman
Animal wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:25 pm
what am i missing here. the orbit path of James Webb will be a larger orbit than earth. so if the James Webb is going to stay in the same relation to earth, it will have to be orbiting faster than earth. its like a two cars on a race track. the one in the outside lane has to drive faster to stay beside the one on the inside lane.
That's what I said!!!
I need a brownie...
Re: Finally- Next Gen James Webb Telescope set for launch
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:56 pm
by CentralTexasCrude
I'll say it again. Everybody is focusing on the "orbit". It's because everybody is used to everything like satellites, shuttles, SSI and support missions that being critical. Jw will be at 3× moon distance. Yes it will be orbiting the Earth with everything orbiting the Sun. Irrelevant. It's mission has no bearing on anything to do with it's orbit. Would not be surprised if they tried to figure once it went dead in a few decades, how long it would take for It's orbit to decay and burn up in the Earth's atmosphere they came up with millions of years
Re: Finally- Next Gen James Webb Telescope set for launch
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:00 pm
by stonedmegman
CentralTexasCrude wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:56 pm
I'll say it again. Everybody is focusing on the "orbit". It's because everybody is used to everything like satellites, shuttles, SSI and support missions that being critical. Jw will be at 3× moon distance. Yes it will be orbiting the Earth with everything orbiting the Sun. Irrelevant. It's mission has no bearing on anything to do with it's orbit. Would not be surprised if they tried to figure once it went dead in a few decades, how long it would take for It's orbit to decay and burn up in the Earth's atmosphere they came up with millions of years
Sooo, how do you keep the Earth between the telescope and the Sun?
And FTR, I'm starting to think you need to get your water tested.
Re: Finally- Next Gen James Webb Telescope set for launch
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:03 pm
by Reservoir Dog
CentralTexasCrude wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:56 pm
I'll say it again. Everybody is focusing on the "orbit". It's because everybody is used to everything like satellites, shuttles, SSI and support missions that being critical. Jw will be at 3× moon distance. Yes it will be orbiting the Earth with everything orbiting the Sun. Irrelevant. It's mission has no bearing on anything to do with it's orbit. Would not be surprised if they tried to figure once it went dead in a few decades, how long it would take for It's orbit to decay and burn up in the Earth's atmosphere they came up with millions of years
Yup... it's Sunday.
Re: Finally- Next Gen James Webb Telescope set for launch
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:05 pm
by CentralTexasCrude
Maybe 100,000's years whatever.
Re: Finally- Next Gen James Webb Telescope set for launch
CentralTexasCrude wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:56 pm
I'll say it again. Everybody is focusing on the "orbit". It's because everybody is used to everything like satellites, shuttles, SSI and support missions that being critical. Jw will be at 3× moon distance. Yes it will be orbiting the Earth with everything orbiting the Sun. Irrelevant. It's mission has no bearing on anything to do with it's orbit. Would not be surprised if they tried to figure once it went dead in a few decades, how long it would take for It's orbit to decay and burn up in the Earth's atmosphere they came up with millions of years
Sooo, how do you keep the Earth between the telescope and the Sun?
And FTR, I'm starting to think you need to get your water tested.
"How do you keep the Earth between the telescope and the Sun?". I don't even know what that means. Freeze dried brain I guess. Why is the Sun even being mentioned?
Re: Finally- Next Gen James Webb Telescope set for launch
CentralTexasCrude wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:56 pm
I'll say it again. Everybody is focusing on the "orbit". It's because everybody is used to everything like satellites, shuttles, SSI and support missions that being critical. Jw will be at 3× moon distance. Yes it will be orbiting the Earth with everything orbiting the Sun. Irrelevant. It's mission has no bearing on anything to do with it's orbit. Would not be surprised if they tried to figure once it went dead in a few decades, how long it would take for It's orbit to decay and burn up in the Earth's atmosphere they came up with millions of years
Sooo, how do you keep the Earth between the telescope and the Sun?
And FTR, I'm starting to think you need to get your water tested.
"How do you keep the Earth between the telescope and the Sun?". I don't even know what that means. Freeze dried brain I guess. Why is the Sun even being mentioned?